Why don't you define objective morality? You've already said that the term: "morals" is simply descriptive in nature. So, in your view does objective morality (as opposed to subjective morality) exist?
Sea Breeze
JoinedPosts by Sea Breeze
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168
Moral responsibility.
by nicolaou inno subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.
please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.
a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!
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168
Moral responsibility.
by nicolaou inno subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.
please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.
a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!
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Sea Breeze
Morals are simply the name we give to the way we choose to act towards other conscious creatures.
Got it.
So, allow me to clarify a bit. Are you saying that in your view all of our moral choices are equal? Or, is there such a thing as objective morality?
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168
Moral responsibility.
by nicolaou inno subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.
please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.
a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!
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Sea Breeze
Cofty, nice red herring. This thread is about moral responsibility. I look forward to addressing any of your assumptions on topic related threads.
Now, like I asked you before - do you have any other sources for your morality other than what you have already presented that you'd like to discuss? Or, is that about it?
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36
Anyone know what this sculpture is of the "torture stake?"
by charity7 inhey guys!
i'm new on this site and am a non jw here married to a jw.
my husband's family are active members and they daily post articles on facebook from jw.org which i know is meant for me to see and read.
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Sea Breeze
Welcome to the board Charity.
Here area some early references to the cross:
Alexamenos graffito
Pompeii, Roman and Herculaneum
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168
Moral responsibility.
by nicolaou inno subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.
please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.
a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!
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Sea Breeze
We all know you have compassion Nicolaou. This is not the question. The question is how did you get it?
Animals don't care if another animal runs off a cliff. In your world view, that's a good thing, right? We're just animals right?
If one animal runs off a cliff, doesn't that allow more food for those that don't? Doesn't that increase the gene pool of those that don't run off cliffs?The simple fact is that you know that child headed for the train has intrinsic value because he is made in the image of God and is your neighbor. You know that you are obligated to save that child because God is a savior God. You know the Christian God in your heart of hearts.
You can deny God because God gave you the ability to do so. But you cannot escape the reason, compassion and love of God no matter how much you hate him, because his attributes are part of you. -
168
Moral responsibility.
by nicolaou inno subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.
please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.
a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!
-
-
Sea Breeze
If my actions cause harm to other people, creatures or the planet they are 'wrong'. If they benefit others they are 'good'.
See how easy that is?Nicolau
Your answer presupposses that you know what "harmful" or "good" to others is. Why would a chemical accident assume to know this for himself, much less others?
I asked how you know if a moral rule is doing either harm or good? This the formost issue some nations are facing right now.
God says it is the parents responsibility to read God's word to their children daily.Men with deviant sexual preferences want to educate our children to 'free" them.
Can't you see the inherent arbitrairiness in the atheist worldview? It makes no sense. ANY morality not rooted in the character of God is inconsistent, arbritray and ultimately meaningless. -
168
Moral responsibility.
by nicolaou inno subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.
please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.
a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!
-
-
Sea Breeze
Nicolaou,
I didn't dismiss your response. But you never responded when I challenged your assumption:
how do you determine "good" in a chance universe?
What if one person says they benefit from eliminating Jews, and another person says they benefit by changing the definition of marriage, and yet another says they benefit by educating our youth on transgenderism?
What say you?
In other words, what is objectively wrong with this picture? Isn't he just another chemical mistake like you claim that you are? -
168
Moral responsibility.
by nicolaou inno subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.
please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.
a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!
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Sea Breeze
Cofty,
Those topics have been covered many times before on this forum. There are many good websites that demonstrate the errors in your assumptions, like:
https://christianthinktank.com/
And:
Are you done defending your atheism? Or, do you have another source (other than God) to present that accounts for your objective morality?
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14
Observation
by pontoon inhaven't been to a meeting in 13 years.
family that lives 1300 miles away doesn't know.
just visited them and here is what i observed.
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Sea Breeze
Thanks Smiddy,
The suffering we have all experienced is very real and does not discriminate for or against one worldview or another.
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168
Moral responsibility.
by nicolaou inno subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.
please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.
a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!
-
-
Sea Breeze
The only way to avoid this (sinning) would be to have our free will stripped away, to become someone -or something- that we are not.
@Tonus
If, out of our own free-will we ask God to give us the new nature he promises, one that cannot sin; how is that violating our God-given free will? Would not that be free wills' ultimate expression?
So, I will either spend eternity incapable of independent thought/action, or I will spend eternity suffering because I invariably broke a rule or crossed a line.
The removal of the sin nature doesn't make sin impossible or render us incapable of independent thought or action. It does however make us adoptable by God, sharers of his nature & heirs of everything he owns - capable of receiving his pure love and returning it without fear or hesitation of any kind.
This is the primary purpose of man - to love God; it is why we are here. It is why there is anything at all. The second purpose is to love our neighbor as ourself.
You mean a moral code that everyone, everywhere will agree with? Assuming such a thing is possible, you get there by trial and error. You experience things, you learn, you adjust.
So, you think that the origin of morality is a convention? I appreciate you presenting possibilities. It's a very important topic.
A convention is something that we all agree to do... like driving on the right side of the road. If we all agree - it works. But we are not talking about getting morality to work. We all know that it works. How we got it is the question. If morality is a simple artifact of convention, then drivers in Britian who drive on the left side of the road are just as correct as those who drive on the right side of the road. This does not account for the existence of universal morality.
I once asked DJW on this forumn if I put a gun to his head and threatened to pull the trigger, would there be anything objectively wrong with that? He could not bring himself to admit that it would be universally morally wrong for me to shoot him in the head.we now have the ability to reason. And that means we can make determinations
But this is at the heart of Christian criticism of atheism. We know atheists have the ability to reason, be moral, employ logic etc. The problem is that the atheist cannot account for it with his stated worldview. It violates his own presuppositions of chaos, happenstance, copying mistakes and chemical accidents. If the atheist really believed these conditions are what created him, to be consistent he would not be able to "know" anything at all.